ABOUT THE EPISODE

Guest Ryan O'Donnell, the brewmaster and executive director of brewery operations at Crying Eagle Brewing, joins hosts Brady and Jillian on Louisiana's Playground to talk through the science and the art behind more than 600 beers, from a pickle sour to a Munich Dunkel finished with local honey. He explains why lagers take patience, how a Disney World dessert became a fan-favorite sour, and why a brewery is really a community gathering place. It all comes back to the two Lake Charles locations that keep locals and visitors coming back.

 

ABOUT THE GUEST 

Ryan O'Donnell is the brewmaster and executive director of brewery operations at Crying Eagle Brewing. He started home brewing at 18, kept it going as a serious hobby through a long career as a marketing consultant in advertising, and eventually left that work to open his own brewery in the Covington-Mandeville area. COVID hit in the thick of that plan, and a call from Eric Avery, whose family owns Crying Eagle, brought him to Lake Charles instead.

He started at Crying Eagle in 2021, commuting from Mandeville for two years before moving his family over for good. With 30 years of brewing history behind him, he pulls flavor ideas from a deep culinary background and a well-worn copy of The Flavor Bible, then does the technical work to make those flavors survive fermentation. He joins the show to open up the brewery side of Crying Eagle, the half of the operation that visitors rarely get to see.

 

ENVIE EATS 

Crying Eagle Brewing - University sits near McNeese State University in Lake Charles, a brewery and restaurant with a beer garden, live music, and shaded and open patio seating. The specialty pizzas are the draw, from the Crying Eagle Pizza with bacon, apples, and goat cheese to the What the Fig with figs and arugula, alongside a caramelized-onion Smashburger with cornstarch-battered fries. The rotating tap list runs adventurous, from the Pineapple Errday sour built on a soft-serve mix to a strawberry lager made with fresh Louisiana strawberries. Kid-friendly during the day and easy to settle into, it plays like a backyard hangout with better beer.

 

RESOURCES MENTIONED 

 

EPISODE 102 TRANSCRIPT

[00:00] Cold Open

Ryan O'Donnell: In doing that, there are definitely standouts. I mean, people come back for the same types of beers, but when you have literally five, six hundred different beers that we've produced over time, everybody likes something about different ones.

[00:22] Intro

Brady Renard: Thanks for joining us on Louisiana's Playground Podcast, your guide to everything there is to see, taste, and do in Lake Charles. I'm Brady Renard.

Jillian Corder: And I'm Jillian Corder, and we're excited to bring you the authentic stories and experiences of Southwest Louisiana. We've got all the tools you need to explore this area.

Brady Renard: Stop it if you've heard me before, but we've got another terrific show for you, episode 102. We go back to Crying Eagle. We visited them way long ago and numerous episodes ago, but we wanted to talk about the brewery side, which, as you said a little bit, is probably your big challenge word. Brewery.

Jillian Corder: Oh, brewery. Yeah, gosh. Yeah, I can't say that word. I also can't say rural very well. Rural. And brewery.

Brady Renard: Some tough ones, but what wasn't tough was the conversation. It was a lot of fun. Ryan O'Donnell, the brewmaster there, joined us. A very enlightening conversation. I learned a lot.

Jillian Corder: I knew nothing about beer, apparently. I still don't. But I know a little bit more than I did.

Brady Renard: You know a little bit more. And so a great conversation. We know that you'll enjoy it. But of course, before we go there, we're going to grab a bite to eat in this segment that you may have heard of by now. It's one that we call Envie Eats.

[01:45] Envie Eats: Crying Eagle

Brady Renard: And as mentioned previously, we head back to Crying Eagle. We'll go into the university location. We visited it way back, I believe in episode three of the podcast.

Jillian Corder: Before I was with you here.

Brady Renard: Before your time. Anna was the co-host. And at that time, they had just revamped the menu. And we had the Louisiana hot chicken sandwich, and I had the habanero wings. And so this time we went with another side of their menu and got a lot to do, and the pizza and the beers rather. Just an awesome meal. The vibe, as we talked about, is so awesome there.

Jillian Corder: Yeah, and we're going to talk about it a little bit later in our interview with Ryan, but it's just a cool vibe. Like, it's not stuffy at all. It feels like you're hanging out at the house without having to worry about hanging out of the house kind of thing.

Brady Renard: Shaded and non-shaded outside seating.

Jillian Corder: Yeah, it's just, I don't know. It's a good vibe. It's a good place. It's kid friendly during, you know, like the day, and my kids kind of mill about and dig through the rocks and look for bugs and stuff out on the patio while the rest of us are listening to good music. So it's a good chill spot.

Brady Renard: Yeah, we certainly have always enjoyed our time there, with or without a beer, although almost exclusively it's been with at least one beer while we're there. So let's talk about those beers. I got a flight this time, and so I got to try a couple of them. And I know you got two of them that you tried. The Pineapple Errday and the Thai Tea have been two that you've really enjoyed. So let's do this. I'll name one, you name one, and we'll kind of go back and forth. So one of the ones that I tried for the first time was What's the Deal? It's a 4.9% pickled sour beer, and it is pickle flavored. Although I think it was really balanced and refreshing. It's heavy, heavy vinegar. The first try you hit, you're like, wow, that was a very vinegar beer. But I'm going to tell you what, the more you drink, the more it grew on me. I had a couple little sips, and I'm not talking about four or five beers deep the more you drink.

Jillian Corder: Sure. You just had the flight.

Brady Renard: But four or five sips. Yeah, little samples. And the more I kept it, I was like, I'm beginning to like this beer more and more. So it's one that the first taste is not going to taste as good to you as the third or fourth, which I think is the sign of a pretty good beer. So I actually really like that beer a lot. And yeah, I mean, it has a very heavy vinegar flavor.

Jillian Corder: Okay, so I want to talk about the Pineapple Errday. That's E-R-R-D-A-Y, in case you're trying to spell it. I love this so much. It's really good. I'm not a beer drinker. That is like not my jam. It's not. It's not. I like a little cocktail here and there. So this was for me, right? So it's got pineapple in it, and I think it's made with a little bit of like a soft serve deal.

Brady Renard: Yes, it's a soft serve powder.

Jillian Corder: So they use a powder to create this soft serve ice cream inside it, which is really cool. It makes this like frothy, tropical, fruity yumminess that is just very, very good. Now this one is seasonal. I do recommend they bring it back and keep it year-round. But it is a seasonal beer they bring back every once in a while. So when they have it, go and get it.

Brady Renard: Another seasonal beer that I had, but this one's here around a lot more, is the strawberry lager. So a strawberry lager is one that's going to be very popular just across Louisiana. Most Louisiana-based breweries find their way to it. We grow strawberries here. There's certain areas of the state that are the strawberry capitals of Louisiana. Louisiana and strawberries are just a handshake.

Jillian Corder: Shout out Ponchatoula.

Brady Renard: Yeah, exactly. And so strawberry lager is a 5% fruited lager, and it's made with fresh strawberries. So you don't get that artificial strawberry taste that you'll sometimes get out. It's got a beautiful golden color and the great strawberry taste, and it's crisp and it's light and it's sweet, and it's just a beautiful summer beer. No really better way to say it than that. It's just so enjoyable. When I say summer, I like it in the spring too. The spring, the summer when it's warm out, it's just an awesome, awesome beer.

Jillian Corder: Okay, so my other one, my other favorite, because I've only tried two and I like them both, is the Thai Tea Sour. It's really yummy, kind of the same thing in that it's made with that soft serve mixture, which is really cool. So it's just got a really fun frothiness to it. Very good. Again, summer. It is made for the summer. So I don't know what all's in it. I'm just going to read it to you. Okay, here we go. Black tea leaves, cinnamon, cardamom, star anise, vanilla bean. That's why I like it. And then they use it with the vanilla soft serve ice cream. So it's a sour, it's sweet, it's a little bit of everything. It's not too fruity or too sweet. It doesn't taste like dessert, but man.

Brady Renard: It's a great beer. Now, the other two beers I had are two of the more unique beers I've ever had anywhere. The other one was the Jalapeño Hefeweizen, a 5.8% beer. It's balanced. It's not too much either jalapeño or hefeweizen, because the jalapeño hits you first. So it is a very fresh jalapeño flavor, and it's got a little bit of a kick.

Jillian Corder: I was going to say, is it hot?

Brady Renard: Not too hot, no. It wasn't too spicy, but it did have kind of that pepper flavor, I would say. And then it kind of settles right into the hefeweizen, which is a wheat beer, and it's just very smooth. It was surprisingly smooth for the most part, but I enjoyed it. It wasn't my favorite beer I've ever had, but I really enjoyed it. And for certain palates, I could see it being their favorite beer.

Jillian Corder: It's one of those, it's like, it's great that it's part of the flight because it makes you be adventurous.

Brady Renard: Sure. And then the last one I had was, I can tell you, would be wildly popular for those that love whiskey drinks. So it's a barrel-aged, old-fashioned triple. It's a 12% beer, which, if you know beers, that's like double percentage of what a lot of beers are. There's freshly sourced cherries and oranges. Woodford Reserve Rye Barrel. It smells like whiskey. Like you smell it and it smells like a whiskey drink. And for it being a 12%, it is smooth. Incredible. Like it's light. It blew me away, all of those things. I'm not the biggest whiskey fan.

Jillian Corder: I might like that.

Brady Renard: But if I were, I don't know if I could put it down. Maybe I should have tried that one. We had, as you know, a whiskey fan at the table who gladly polished it off. Because I wanted to share, I'm not trying to drink too many. I'm a nice guy.

Jillian Corder: That's nice of you. Yeah, during work hours and such.

Brady Renard: Let's talk food though, before we go, because you know, this is obviously, you're coming to eat. Like the drinks are great and they're fun, and it should be a big reason why you choose Crying Eagle.

Jillian Corder: That's the premier reason you choose. You do not discount the food there. The food came later, right? It opened as a brewery, and the food kind of wasn't immediate.

Brady Renard: But the food is exceptional.

Jillian Corder: But man, do they have a menu now. They figured it out, and it rivals some of the best places in town. I get the Crying Eagle Pizza, which is what I get every time I go. But I figure if they're willing to put their name on it, if it's got their name on it, it's got to be good. Because they can't get rid of it.

Brady Renard: They kind of have to.

Jillian Corder: They can't be like, oh, we don't serve that anymore. Like, no, you put your name on it. So here's what I love about it. It's covered in cheese. This is going to sound so weird, but just go try it. It's good. You will become a believer, because I first went, not going to eat that. It's got bacon, apples, goat cheese on it. And then it's got all kinds of other cheeses onto it too, like a five cheese blend situation. It is the perfect mixture of sweet from the apples, and this little drizzle they put on it. And salty from the bacon, that savory bit, and that little bit of weirdly tart goat cheese flavor. It is so good together.

Brady Renard: That umami, if you will.

Jillian Corder: It's so good. And I like those flavors. To me, I don't know, they just really, really work. Outdone themselves on this pizza. And I got to bring back the leftovers back to work with me, and I made a believer out of somebody else.

Brady Renard: See.

Jillian Corder: Because everybody was like, I don't know. And I said, just try it. And I made a believer out of it.

Brady Renard: Another one of their popular pizzas is the What the Fig, that has actual figs on it. And there's a couple of different cheeses. And it also is exceptional. Some arugula in the middle.

Jillian Corder: They're different.

Brady Renard: They're different, but they're very, very good. They do have a traditional like pepperoni and cheese, but it's their specialty pizzas that I think really makes that part of their menu shine.

Jillian Corder: And my kids even love it. And they're kids, but they love it too.

Brady Renard: I went with the Smashburger. I've had their pizza a lot. I've had their wings and chicken sandwiches. I never had their burger. And that was a mistake to have never gotten the burger before.

Jillian Corder: Yeah, their sandwiches are delicious too, by the way.

Brady Renard: So I got their Smashburger this time. Large burger. And I'm not an onion fan. And I made sure to have the onions, and they were perfect because they were caramelized. They spent time caramelizing the onions, which, as you know, you have to get from the start. Like it takes a while to get to the caramelization of an onion. It's not a quick process, and they take the time to do it, which means they do it right. And so it adds a perfect little sweetness. It's really garlicky in the best way, big crunchy pickles on it. I mean, it was just a fantastic burger.

Jillian Corder: Oh my gosh, tear to your eye and everything. Makes you emotional.

Brady Renard: Yeah. I mean, it's a beautiful burger. It looks great. It tastes great. And they come with the kind of the homemade style fries, the cornstarch battered fries.

Jillian Corder: Yes.

Brady Renard: And they were just spectacular.

Jillian Corder: I've had their sandwiches there before. It was a Benedict, I think, sandwich. That was insane to eat. It's this big. But it was absolutely delicious as well. I've never ordered anything I didn't like.

Brady Renard: Sure. I agree. And so whether you're getting beer or food, it's a lot of fun and even more fun to play. But speaking of that, let's go to our conversation so we hear a lot more about the brewery side.

[12:32] Guest Introduction

Brady Renard: From a great bill to a great guest, we welcome on Mr. Ryan O'Donnell. He's the executive director of brewery operations and the brewmaster for Crying Eagle. So with extensive experience in brewing and operations and leadership, he's helped shape one of the region's most respected craft brewery brands. He's passionate about the science and artistry of beer making, and he combines the technical brewing expertise with a deep love for the culinary arts to innovate and explore new flavor combinations. Welcome to the show, Ryan.

Ryan O'Donnell: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[13:05] Rapid Fire

Jillian Corder: I feel like this entire interview is really a setup for me because I feel very uncomfortable and not confident with the way I say brewery. Brewery.

Brady Renard: Brewery.

Jillian Corder: Brewery. I'm not confident there.

Ryan O'Donnell: Just slur it together. Make it a one syllable slush.

Jillian Corder: So I'm just going to avoid it at all cost in this conversation. Real quick, we like to let everybody know how you play in Louisiana's Playground, okay? So we've got some rapid fire questions for you.

Ryan O'Donnell: Okay.

Jillian Corder: You may have cheated and saw my notes, I don't know.

Ryan O'Donnell: Oh boy.

Jillian Corder: Okay, first up, crawfish or gumbo?

Ryan O'Donnell: Gumbo.

Jillian Corder: Okay, great choice. Part two to that question is, is there a gumbo season?

Ryan O'Donnell: Kinda. It's a year-round thing for me. But game gumbo in the fall, but seafood gumbo year round.

Brady Renard: I certainly can understand the, there are times that I enjoy it even more than others, but it's perfect all the time. It really is. Is the answer.

Jillian Corder: He judges people who think there's a gumbo season. You pass though, you pass. Poolside or beachside?

Ryan O'Donnell: Poolside.

Jillian Corder: Poolside, doesn't surprise.

Brady Renard: It doesn't. Beer feels like, I mean, look, it's great on the beach, but it's really a poolside drink.

Ryan O'Donnell: They're both wonderful. Just don't want any sand in there.

Jillian Corder: You're just over it.

Ryan O'Donnell: I'm over it.

Jillian Corder: You're over it. Okay. Concert or comedy show?

Ryan O'Donnell: Comedy show.

Jillian Corder: Okay. He passed all of your best.

Brady Renard: I was about to say this. You are, I think, the second guest that, those are my three.

Jillian Corder: Those are his three.

Brady Renard: And I think you're the only second guest that has, so look, it's in great rare company.

Ryan O'Donnell: It's a very close tie.

Jillian Corder: A match made in heaven. All right, here we go.

[14:51] Ryan's Background and Coming to Lake Charles

Brady Renard: So look, we kind of talked a little bit about your background. Can you kind of take us through quickly your background and then how'd you kind of end up here in Lake Charles?

Ryan O'Donnell: Sure. I'll try and make it the abridged version. I mean, I'm in Lake Charles because of beer. I mean, in a nutshell.

Brady Renard: Same.

Ryan O'Donnell: Fair enough. So I started home brewing when I was 18 years old. That turned into a pretty...

Jillian Corder: Can you do that?

Ryan O'Donnell: You can't. I mean, you shouldn't. That turned into a pretty serious hobby. That became sort of an obsession. And over time, I had a completely separate career in the advertising world. I was a marketing consultant for an ad agency for a very long time. But always, from a point of time, had the goal that eventually I would move towards opening my own brewery. And frankly, when I started homebrewing, that really wasn't even a thing. I mean, craft breweries were not, the culture wasn't there like it is now.

Brady Renard: Something upticked probably around that time.

Ryan O'Donnell: It really did. Yeah. And so once I realized, well, this could be a viable thing, I moved in that direction for years until I eventually, with the help of my family, left that career and focused full-time on opening a brewery in the Covington-Mandeville area. COVID hit right as I was in the thick of that. And it really put a squeeze on a lot of things for everybody, as you know. At that time, when I was really getting to the point where I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to stick it out through COVID, I got a call from Eric Avery, who is, the Avery family owns Crying Eagle properties. Eric and I knew each other from the Louisiana Craft Brewers Guild, which is the lobbying group, so to speak, for our industry. And we would see each other in Baton Rouge, different legislative events. And we always liked each other, stayed in touch over the couple of years. And then he just reached out one day out of the blue and said, my brewmaster is leaving. Would you ever consider moving to Lake Charles? Which I said, no. Thank you. It was very, very kind. I had never even been to Lake Charles at that point. Frank, mind you, this was literally months after the two hurricanes hit here, in the middle of COVID. It was not the greatest time to see Lake Charles for the first time. And the place was devastated.

Jillian Corder: Hard to make a sales pitch when it looked the way it did.

Ryan O'Donnell: You know, but I've been through that kind of thing before, the New Orleans area. And Eric is a really good salesperson. He's a very close friend of mine, and he really helped me see the vision as to what could be here and what actually has become. So it was a Hail Mary. We came here, checked it out and decided to give it a try. So I started working in 2021 at Crying Eagle, and I commuted for two years. My family still lived in Mandeville. I had an apartment here during the week, and I would go home on the weekends. And so it was the best and worst time of my life in that regard. But eventually everyone came here. We all live here now. We're all happy. And that's how I'm in Lake Charles.

Brady Renard: Yeah. So from a Hail Mary to a match made in heaven, which you had kind of called it, is it still that way five years later?

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, I think so. I'm living my own dream, right? I'm doing what I love doing on a daily basis. I'm so happy to get up and go to work every day. But the dream has gotten larger. The dream has changed, as any do. Crying Eagle is a living organism, and we're always finding ways to try new things, do new things, and to expand our business.

[19:00] What a Brewmaster Does

Jillian Corder: So, for those who don't know, tell us what a brewmaster does. It sounds like you just sip beer and you're like, yeah, that's good.

Ryan O'Donnell: That's what my wife thinks we do.

Brady Renard: I was going to say somewhere in between that and then like, the cauldron of witch, right? Because I think of them as a brewmaster as well, just, they make potions instead.

Ryan O'Donnell: Brewing beer is probably about five to 10% of what I do, and really anybody that works in a brewery would tell you that same thing about their jobs. There's so much more that goes into making beer beyond the brew day. The lion's share of what goes into a beer comes after that, but really 80% of it is probably cleaning.

Jillian Corder: Just cleaning.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah. I mean, you have to really love cleaning to work in a brewery.

Jillian Corder: And I will say this, every time we're at Crying Eagle, whether it's McNeese or Lakefront, when you look into the window, everything's so shiny.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, it has to be.

Jillian Corder: It's incredible. It's like, oh, look how clean that. My house has never been that clean.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, it's twice as clean on the inside. Sanitation is what separates a good brewery from a bad brewery. Absolutely.

[20:11] Creating a New Beer

Jillian Corder: How do you come up with, what's the process coming up with a new beer? Every time we're there, I try something different.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, that's great. I love hearing that. It takes on a number of things. I mean, anything can influence how a new beer comes to be. My personal process has always been based on or rooted in my love for cooking. I had a big culinary background, just always loved cooking growing up. That's never changed. And so I always explore different flavor profiles, different cuisines. And so typically when I'm trying to create a new beer, I will sit down, I have this big encyclopedia-sized book called The Flavor Bible, and it has a list of basically every ingredient known to man and every combination of flavor that goes well with it. And so it just becomes a big brainstorm session.

Brady Renard: Very cool.

Ryan O'Donnell: Or I'll have a beer at another brewery that I love.

Jillian Corder: You're inspired by it.

Ryan O'Donnell: I'm inspired by it, trying to do something to replicate it. But that's really just the first part when coming up with a new beer, is the idea. The execution is where it becomes difficult often. I can think of something that will taste well together, different flavors, but to have them present in a beer is really a much more challenging thing than people think, because most flavor comes from the sugars that are in any particular ingredient. And so when those go into a beer and fermentation happens, the yeast eats all the sugar. And so what's left behind is sort of the aura of what was there initially. And so you have to find ways to creatively add things to beers at specific times and just different throughout different processes in order to really have them come through.

Jillian Corder: There's a real science to it.

Ryan O'Donnell: There is, yeah.

[22:06] University vs. Lakefront

Jillian Corder: And we've talked about it before, the difference between the university and the lakefront locations. Obviously, they kind of have their own different vibe. And the brews there are different too, right? They are. Explain that.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, it was intentional. I mean, everything was intentional about it. When you think about it, we were opening a second brewery in a relatively small city. So it would have been pointless for us to try and replicate what we were already doing at the original location. We had a real opportunity to do something new, and we did that. So that included everything, obviously from the locale, but also to the food, which is such an important key element over at the lakefront, which is much more restaurant focused. It's sort of a higher end setting. And I wanted the beer to dovetail along with that. I wanted to really focus on primarily very classic beer styles, European lagers mostly, and then just very developed flavors in the other offerings that we have.

Brady Renard: So when you create those, you talked about, I guess, what have been some of your staples that you guys have really circled and been the tried and true ones for you guys?

Ryan O'Donnell: There's so many. I mean, when you think about, I'm not trying to dodge the question. University has 20 taps.

Brady Renard: Answer me.

Ryan O'Donnell: Those taps change constantly. So I mean, every week or two, there's new beers coming out. And so it's constantly a rotating tap list. I didn't want that to be the same way at the lakefront. I wanted to have a pretty established selection of beers that people could look forward to each time they came there. And that paired very well with the different meal offerings that we have. And in doing that, there are definitely standouts. I mean, people come back for the same types of beers, but when you have literally five, six hundred different beers that we've produced over time, everybody likes something about different ones.

Brady Renard: Does that blow you away? That number?

Ryan O'Donnell: I mean, yeah, it does.

Brady Renard: I mean, you hear that number, that's a lot. I don't know if I've ever tried five or six hundred different beers.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, well.

Jillian Corder: You have not.

Ryan O'Donnell: It takes work. It takes a lot of work.

Brady Renard: It takes hard work. Yeah, it takes hard work to drink all this beer.

Jillian Corder: I'm working here. But so, okay, because they change it out so quickly, especially at the university location, do you have people who are clamoring for you to bring back something?

Ryan O'Donnell: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Jillian Corder: And is it Pineapple Errday?

Ryan O'Donnell: You know, that's funny that you say that.

Jillian Corder: Because I may have a personal love for that.

Ryan O'Donnell: Okay, a lot of people do. You know, I always find it surprising as to what people like. I can think something's the greatest thing in the world, and to me it might be, but that doesn't mean a majority of people will like that.

Jillian Corder: We're very different on our tastes, especially with beer, because I'm not much of a, not usually a beer drinker, right? So those more fruity things and what you guys are doing with a little scoop of ice cream.

Ryan O'Donnell: There we go.

Brady Renard: I was going to say it's the soft serve.

Ryan O'Donnell: And probably one of the largest selling segments of beer that we have are sours. And sours are the perfect vehicle for flavor experimentation and for adding those different elements, because it's got the natural acidity from being a sour beer that you can add sweetness, you can add savory flavors, you can try things that are floral, herbaceous, anything really typically can work in a sour. That particular beer you're referring to, I was just inspired by, I was at a trip years and years ago with my family in Disney World, and they were selling Pineapple Dole Whip, which is a dessert. And I said, wow, that could make a really good beer if done right.

Jillian Corder: It was done right.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, thanks. I appreciate it. It was really good. It took a long time to figure out how to add the right type of sweetness to it without becoming overly sweet, and still adding sort of that creamy body that you would expect in something that's, you can't add dairy products to beer, by the way. So that just doesn't work. And so after lots of experimentation, lots of different things, we landed on non-dairy powdered soft serve ice cream mix. And it works beautifully.

Jillian Corder: It does. In fact, what I had, what did I have last time?

Brady Renard: Which one did you go for? It was the...

Jillian Corder: I just tell him to give me something I'd like.

Brady Renard: It was one of the, the tea, the Thai tea.

Ryan O'Donnell: Thai tea. That's a real popular one too.

Jillian Corder: It was great.

Ryan O'Donnell: Those are the types of ones that really seem to be the best sellers.

Jillian Corder: That's my zone right there.

Brady Renard: I think it's great. When it comes to beer, like really most things that can become a hobby, especially when it comes to taste, people, there's levels of how brave you feel like you have to be coming in, even though at the end of the day, it's just a drink. But I think people can easily be intimidated. I know I do, right? Like I'm not the biggest IPA fan, especially stouts are not really my jam. And so you get up there and you're like, I want to try something new, but I also don't want to have spent $6 on something I didn't like. And so, which, you guys also offer things like flights that you can get multiple options. And every time I've ever been up to the bar, the bartenders have had no issue saying, here, try this one, see what you like. Because at the end of the day, you don't want someone getting a beer that they don't like.

Ryan O'Donnell: 100%. The crowd at our original location, which we refer to as university, because it's close to McNeese University, the vibe there is different. It's sort of a fun, kind of funky place. It's very visually stimulating. We have lots of entertainment there. And the beer selection matches that. And we can be more creative there. And the clientele that come there tend to be more adventurous. They'll see something on the board. Like I have a sour that's made with plum, vanilla, and bay leaf, which kind of sounds strange to people. And it's one of our top selling sours that we have. People just, they gravitate towards that at that location, whereas the lakefront, not to say they wouldn't, I don't have as many taps to play with, first off. And people are looking for something that they can pair with a really great meal there.

Jillian Corder: Right.

Brady Renard: Kind of refined almost in a different way, right? And look, I wanted to give you guys credit too. I love the cans when you guys do have new ones and you do the cans. Like my favorite was the, you'll know the name. It's the Street Fighter style can.

Ryan O'Donnell: Things Unsettled IPA.

Brady Renard: That was an amazing beer. That might be my favorite one you all made. What is that, an IPA? I'm not completely against IPAs. I'm just...

Ryan O'Donnell: And the can artwork is fantastic on that.

Brady Renard: Yeah, it's beautiful. So which have been some of your favorites?

Ryan O'Donnell: Can wise, man, I really like a number of them that we have. Of course, I like the ones that I was involved in the creative process. Dark Honey is one that I really love the can for. It's just got a very sort of art deco, I don't know, mid-century modern type feel to it. And that was intentional in the design. That style of beer was my grandmother's one that she liked. And she was just the queen of the 1960s, and her house was like that, always. And I don't know, just.

Brady Renard: I was going to say that's like a 20 year recipe too for you, huh? Dark Honey.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, it's one I've been working on for, well, I'm not working on it anymore. It's settled. The science is settled.

Brady Renard: All things settled.

Ryan O'Donnell: But yeah, it's just one that, over the course of my brewing history, which is now 30 years, certain ones will stick and some don't. Dark Honey really always was a showcase, and people have always liked it, but I always just wanted to fine tune it, because it's a very, very specific traditional German style, the Munich Dunkel. And I wanted to always pay homage to that. So it is classic in almost every sense, except that I add some local honey to it just to add a touch of sweetness and increase, make it a little bit drier on the finish. And it's one of those, it's actually a strong beer. I mean, it's over 7% alcohol, but you can't tell. And it drinks like a four and a half, 5 percenter. So it can be dangerous. People like it.

Brady Renard: Drinks like a four percenter.

Jillian Corder: Drinks like a four percenter.

Brady Renard: She's not a beer drinker, so it means nothing to her.

Jillian Corder: Yes, it does. I get that. I understand.

Brady Renard: You understand the reference. I'm saying, for you.

[31:02] Why Lagers Are Divas

Brady Renard: Big question, why are lagers such divas?

Ryan O'Donnell: I don't know what that means. I'm just trying to find the shortest way to tell you this, but they truly are. Lager brewing is very specific. It's very technical. I'm going to not give you the longest answer I can on this, but in a nutshell, there are only two types of beer that exist. There are ales and lagers. And every beer style falls within one of those two categories. It really is driven by the yeast that's used in the fermentation process. There are ale yeasts and there are lager yeasts. Ale yeasts tend to prefer higher temperatures, so warmer beer, warmer unfermented beer. And they eat from the bottom and work their way all the way up to the top before they die and fall back down. And they do that very quickly. Lager yeasts are these little slow, classy guys that just, they like to...

Brady Renard: Top hats and everything.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, they like it real cold. They prefer temperatures, you know, in the...

Brady Renard: It's like cats and dogs. So lagers are really like cats.

Ryan O'Donnell: They are.

Brady Renard: And ales are dogs. There you go.

Ryan O'Donnell: So sorry to get all sciency on it, but it...

Jillian Corder: That cleared everything up.

Ryan O'Donnell: Sorry. Lagers take very specific techniques on the brewing side. There are many more steps on the actual brew day involved, very specific temperature ranges that you have to hit. And the fermentation process, because it's a cold environment and those yeast eat very slow, it just takes a long time to really finish fermentation and just age to bring out the right flavors. And there are certain off-flavors that naturally will develop during the fermentation process of lagers that you have to wait until they're gone. You know, sorry, I'm going to get deep on that.

Jillian Corder: No.

Brady Renard: But aren't you glad to be able to like get to drink those without having to worry about the science of all that?

Jillian Corder: Yeah, I just get the payoff. How do you stay patient during that whole process though?

Ryan O'Donnell: You know, there's never a dull day in the brewing world. I always say that my only boss is the beer. And in a nutshell, that really is the truth. The beer dictates everything. The beer dictates everything that I do. So I mean, if there's nothing to do on a specific day, I won't have to come to work. Fortunately, there's always something that needs to be done. And one of the dozens of beers that we have in some stage of the process always needs something.

Jillian Corder: Well, and that's what I was going to ask is at any given time, if you walked in, how much is going at any given time? Like how many different beers are you working on at once?

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, I mean, we'll have usually, like at university, we'll probably have somewhere in the 12 to 15 different beers going on at any given time. And the lakefront usually, I mean, five to six to seven, but ramping up. It's still a very new facility that I'm still just getting on the back end of working all the kinks out of.

Brady Renard: And each are very specific. And so that, I'm sure, can lead to not necessarily confusion, but you have to be on top of your game. You have to be on top of the ball.

Ryan O'Donnell: 100%. Every beer has a, we've talked about living organisms. It is a living organism. And every beer has a life cycle. You almost treat it like a child. It needs certain things throughout every step of the way. So every day we're taking measurements and we're doing things to aid it along this process to help it get done as quickly as possible, but as perfectly as possible.

[34:48] Favorite Beers and Biggest Failures

Brady Renard: Because you mentioned each beer is kind of like a child. Who's your favorite? Yeah, no, I like it, because that's going to be one of them. But I would say, is that, how many have grandchildren at this point? What I mean by that is you have a beer, a spin-off, and it's kind of like their child, right? And so, at this point.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, it's going to be so many, so.

Jillian Corder: I'm going to go with a lot.

Brady Renard: So many beers inspire other beers.

Ryan O'Donnell: 100%. And then, like we've already discussed, like on the sour side, what we will typically make is a large batch of sour. It's called a Berliner Weisse. And that beer will be spun off into eight different beers with different things added at different times to create Pineapple Errday or...

Jillian Corder: That's very good.

Ryan O'Donnell: It's a great beer.

Jillian Corder: Both of them are quite good. So who is your favorite though? Which one?

Ryan O'Donnell: I should have, you should send me a list. I would have written down.

Jillian Corder: Do not ask the question. If you had to order one beer the rest of your life.

Ryan O'Donnell: I would just...

Brady Renard: Would it be one of yours? You only drink one beer for the rest of your life. Would it be one of yours?

Jillian Corder: Would it be one of yours? It's Dark Honey.

Brady Renard: Yeah, that's why it's going to clip well and be posted.

Ryan O'Donnell: You know, I just have a personal love for, I love IPAs. I love every style. But Front Porch Breakfast, which is our flagship IPA over at the lakefront, me and that guy go way back. And I'd probably have him on my deathbed if I needed to pick one.

Brady Renard: He's your best man.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, he is.

Jillian Corder: I love that. But wait, hold on. I have a question. What was your biggest failure in flavors? Like, you think, you're like, this is going to be the one. This is it. And then you do it, you put these things.

Brady Renard: This is what they'll remember me for.

Jillian Corder: And then you go, oh, that's not it.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, naturally there are going to be those times. And throughout the course of making so many different things and so many different flavor combinations, you'd be surprised at how very little beer I've ever poured down the drain and said this is undrinkable. It's been nearly nothing in that category. Certainly things have not turned out the way I envisioned always, but what's always important to me is that, and I'm going to answer your question, I promise. The most important thing to me, and a lot of breweries I think miss this, is if I tell you that something is in a beer or that there's a flavor to be expecting, I make sure that you're going to taste that. And you're going to taste it in the most appropriate way, so that it doesn't, you don't forget that you are drinking a beer. And so it can be a very delicate flavoring process, whatever. Sometimes you can get too heavy-handed. And I think this, probably the worst one, that was the biggest failure that I just had to dump, was the result of one of my brainstorming processes when I knew that basil, white chocolate, and strawberries go well together. And I put them all into a stout. They did not go well together in that arena, in that vehicle.

Jillian Corder: It does sound like, in theory, though.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, it was strawberry white chocolate basil stout. I called it Fancy Pants. Fancy Pants didn't last very long.

Jillian Corder: That's a great name.

Brady Renard: He's too big for his britches, I guess. Yeah, it's a night one. Are there any beers that you flat out refuse to make?

Ryan O'Donnell: No, I would never say that. Well, okay, never say never. I mean, if you came to me, I don't know, can I say specific beers on here without getting in trouble?

Jillian Corder: Don't make him make Fancy Pants again.

Brady Renard: I don't know. The beer police is pretty... You know what? We're going to take our chance. I'd rather ask for forgiveness than permission.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, I mean, if you came to me and said, you know, I want you to make a clone of like a natural light ice or something, you know, like that.

Brady Renard: Beer 30. Beer 30 Ice, right? Can you clone that?

Ryan O'Donnell: I would say there's not a place for that in what we're offering.

Brady Renard: It's not part of your vision.

Ryan O'Donnell: It's not an ego thing at all. I mean, I love making beer. I love everything that goes into that process, but some are more fun than others to make. But I do have my limits. I will draw the line somewhere.

Jillian Corder: That's pretty good.

Brady Renard: What about someone sits in front of you and says that they hate beer? Change my mind. What do you put in front of them?

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, I always take that as a challenge. And this is something almost just culturally that we'll do. I mean, if you go to the bar at university, we have wonderful bartenders there that you can walk up to and they'll be conversational with you. They'll ask you what you like, what you typically like to drink, what flavors you like, and try and find something that works well for you. So I guess I would do something similar. I would just simply ask them what they do like. What do you like to drink? And if I feel that there's something that would fit, or I might get adventurous with them. I might say, you know what, I really want you to give this a try, because you say you don't like beer, you hate beer, but this doesn't taste anything like what I think you have in your mind as what beer tastes like.

Brady Renard: One of them on the menu right now that you know of that fits that category? That's at Crying Eagle, that's at, let's say, university, because it's a little bit more adventurous.

Ryan O'Donnell: Strangely enough, there's a cotton candy sour on that. To me, doesn't sound great. Executionally, it came out far better than I could have ever imagined. And it's wonderful.

Brady Renard: Isn't that the best, though, when you kind of, we asked which ones were some of your biggest failures, right? But it's the opposite. The ones that you don't have high hopes for, but it's just got a place and then it blows you away. That's the best. That's awesome. Is there a beer on the menu that you are really proud of that you feel like isn't quite as popular as what you think it should be?

Ryan O'Donnell: There are a few. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's okay. I mean, I get it. We're trying to appease the masses here. And our market isn't absolutely filled with beer connoisseurs, type of people that go take trips to go to breweries and they go abroad and they really get very technically involved with beers and whatnot. We have a German Pilsner on tap at the lakefront called Virtuoso, which I'm, it may be the finest beer I've ever created. I've received that feedback from a few. But no, it really, I mean, it's a very traditional German lager, German Pilsner lager. And you find that it has a little bit more of a hoppy bite to it than, I guess, people that will lean towards drinking a lighter lager beer here and in most places are going to gravitate towards that beer flavored beer. You know what I mean? Like a traditional American pale lager, like your Budweiser, Bud Light, that type of flavor profile that doesn't have that hop bite to it and slightly different body. But if I set that beer in front of someone who's really, really new to beer, they would...

Jillian Corder: They get it.

Ryan O'Donnell: They get it.

Brady Renard: So that's the one. Okay. I love that.

[42:23] Crying Eagle as a Community Gathering Place

Brady Renard: And look, we've talked about Crying Eagle, the restaurant, the hangout, the brewery. It's become such a great place to hang out, especially the university location with all the things. Why is it so cool? Why is it so fun to hang out? I mean, there's a pinball arcade there now.

Ryan O'Donnell: Well, I mean, we have a wonderful team. We have excellent leadership. Crying Eagle is filled with employees that pay very close attention to detail in everything that we do. And so everything we do is intentional. That space is a space that's meant to be like all breweries. They're welcoming. They're community builders. Everyone is welcome. And we have lots for them to do. I mean, it's visually stimulating. There's all sorts of different nooks and crannies and cool places to go sit. We've got a stage outside in the beer garden with live music happening. As you mentioned, we have a pinball room, the tilt room now. And that is good to be the source of a lot of wasted man hours, I think, myself included, but it's okay.

Brady Renard: He built it for you.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah, kind of. I don't know. But you know, I think it's just a place that we as Louisianians really do, there's a word I have a trouble with. Louisianians.

Jillian Corder: Brewery.

Ryan O'Donnell: We're social people. We like to be out, we like to imbibe, we like to eat, and all those things come together.

Brady Renard: And we brought, when we had someone that helped us with marketing, and she was from London. And so when she came over, we brought her to Crying Eagle and she obviously loved it, and she immediately connected, the pub culture there is something that we just don't have here in that same way. And she immediately though connected with Crying Eagle as kind of a bit of that pub culture, but here. And so I do love that connection where you mentioned it as a community builder. What is the role do you view of a brewery being in a community?

Ryan O'Donnell: It's just that. It's a gathering place. You think of just historically what taverns and pubs have always been. They're gathering places where people can come together, they can be social, regardless of race, creed, religion, social status, any of those things. Everyone's welcome there and there's something for everyone there. And I think it just speaks volumes to what we've been able to build here in Lake Charles. And I'm excited about continuing to do things there.

Jillian Corder: What I like about the beer garden specifically is that, for us, especially because we have two kids, so whenever we're there, it's usually like a Friday evening or a Sunday or something like that. And they're finding bugs in the rocks and things like that. He finds all the, yeah, they're milling about the rocks and playing around and stuff. And it feels like you're in somebody's backyard. It feels like you're in a buddy's backyard without having to, you know, somebody to play host to, right? So that's why I like it so much, because the music is the right vibe. You're sitting outside, you're having a good time, you're having a beer, and it feels like you're at home.

Ryan O'Donnell: That's so good to hear that. And you're absolutely right. And like I said, these are all intentional things. We have people that are great at their jobs and they work very hard to make sure that our spaces are like that. And that's our goal.

Jillian Corder: If you could just bring back Pineapple Errday.

Ryan O'Donnell: It's on the list, okay?

Jillian Corder: Thanks. Thanks.

Brady Renard: And like they all pair. I mean, we do their pizzas a lot, which, as we talked about in Envie Eats, obviously, you went with the pizza there. But that's something that we've enjoyed, as you said. Now, someone driving into town first time or maybe even live here and just haven't taken that moment yet, what do you want them to know before walking into the door through either location? Although I'm sure that university location is one that is pushed a lot because it's fun. It's not the really nice restaurant, it's the relaxed vibes. It's the, hey, come hang out for a little bit vibes.

Ryan O'Donnell: Yeah. I certainly would want them to know that. Selfishly, I would want them to be very eager to get involved in the beer side of things, but honestly, I mean, we do such an amazing job at both locations on the food. I mean, Chef John at university is just constantly doing new and exciting things. Chef Lyle as well over at the lakefront, and in different worlds. So the food is just as much to get excited about as the beer. I mean, kind of.

Jillian Corder: Sure.

Ryan O'Donnell: Sort of. But also, you know, the entertainment aspect and really just that, I promise you there's something for you to do there and enjoy yourself.

[47:11] Sign-Off

Brady Renard: All right. Well, thanks again to Ryan for joining us here on the show. And the biggest thank you of all, as you know, goes out to you, the listener, for taking time to listen to this here podcast. If you have a moment, please leave us a rating or review. We're on YouTube and Spotify video and all the places, TikTok and all those places that our clips have been doing well. Leave us some comments. We enjoy your time and hearing from you.

Jillian Corder: That's right. And if you leave us a rating or review, that always helps us grow our audience so we can further share the unique experiences that Lake Charles and all of Southwest Louisiana have to offer. Remember to go to visitlakecharles.org slash podcast for more episodes, advice on where to eat, and what's happening this weekend.

Brady Renard: This very weekend.

Jillian Corder: That's right.

Brady Renard: This one right here. Or this one later. You know, maybe next weekend.

Jillian Corder: Rest of the year. Full calendar. I'm Jillian Corder.

Brady Renard: And I'm Brady Renard. Thanks again for coming to play at Louisiana's Playground. C'est tout.